Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Anon says.

Anon had this to say about yesterdays entry.

So when other people talk to you about the dangers of being fat, it's unwanted concern trolling.

But when you talk to others about the dangers of dieting, it's "hey why so offended? I'm just trying to be helpful!"

lol, hypocrite. Game, set, match.

Frankly Anon yes and no. There is the issue of approach. If I walk up to someone who I believe is on a diet and start screaming at them or berating them about possible issues with their dieting, I am being an asshole. If I am talking to someone I care for and express genuine concern in a manner that is not condescending or rude it is not concern trolling.

If someone comes to me with genuine concern (you see what I did there with the italics?) about what effect my weight may or may not have on my body I have no issues discussing it.

What I do take issue with is that my weight is somehow the sole signification of my health status.

What I take issue with is when so called concern is presented in a disingenuous manner as you were so kind to demonstrate.

You in particular Anon I would not take seriously or take any "concern" you displayed because of your manner. In essence you are either being deliberately obtuse because ZOMG FATTASS has something to say. Or you just don't get it and can't get around the whole issue of Fat.

I myself draw the line between concern trolling and genuine concern like this.

Let's have a pretend conversation:

Random Person: Hey you're fat you're gonna get diabetes.

Me: I am fat and do not have diabetes nor have I ever shown any signs of diabetes.

Random Person: But your FAT FATTY and you're GONNA GET IT CAUSE YOU'RE FAT!

That is trollish, that is not real concern. That is pushing an agenda on the basis of a single fact which really is generally not the way to have a productive dialogue about anything.

Scenerio 2.

Random Person: Hey you're fat you're gonna get diabetes.

Me: I am fat and do not have diabetes nor have I ever shown any signs of diabetes.

Random Person: Really? That's pretty awesome. I'm glad that you don't have diabetes or show signs of it.



Person: Hey you've gained some weight recently are you worried about high blood pressure? You know I'm on this diet and my BP has gone down and I've lost thirty five pounds.

Me: I have gained a little weight I fluctuate by about ten pounds and my BP is doing really well. I'm happy with my body and I don't really want to diet.

Person: But you can lose so much weight so fast on this diet it's great! You should do it.

Me: I don't really want to and rapid weight loss like that can be bad for your health. And I'd rather keep my weight stable than go up and down, in the long run that's not good either.

Person: Really? I didn't know that. That has to be better than diabetes and high blood pressure and...


Now that conversation if the person really wants to have a dialogue about fat or me being fat or dieting for that matter they will do those things that make for an effective conversation.

In my book trolling means that there is no interest on the part of said troll to engage in discourse.

The concern troll wants to say what they have to say and what has already been said, or even the person they are speaking to doesn't matter.

Concern trolling is often demonstrated when someone says things like, well HA I showed you.

Concern trolling is often evidenced by the pervasive and burning need to be right.

Concern trolling is when someone pretends to be an ally but in fact only wants to push their idea of what's going on.

In this context, that being fat is absolutely always bad for you no matter what. And wasn't that your point Anon?

Now not once have I advocated or indulged here in that kind of thing. If you read back I welcome divergent viewpoints BUT as I have said again and again, if you hit and run or say something dumb I am probably going to take your opinion less seriously.

Being that this is my litterbox and while I may be the Dowager Empress of All Fatassia, I can only speak for my own actions.

Will I listen to someone who is an avid dieter?

Yes I will. I will listen to that person and take in what they have to say.

I will consider what they have to say and how they say it.

I will practice mindfulness in how I speak to them.

I will be mindful that not everyone is coming from a place of accepting themselves or their bodies.

I will be mindful of the fact that not everyone has reached a point where they do not equate looks with health as I do.

I will if need be make sure that the person is aware of the following:

  • I do not believe that Health is a virtue or a moral issue.

  • I do not believe that everyone can, has to or wants to have the same level of health.

  • I do not believe that appearance is the best indicator of individual health.

  • I do not have the right and do not believe I should have the right to make health choices for other people via my vote or my public opinion.

  • I do believe that it is a valuable thing to have an open dialgues about these issues because I fully believe that self acceptance can lead to a healthier and happier life.

And above all of those I have genuine care for other human beings.

I care about people who may be caught in a loop of self loathing because they buy into the hype about obesity and body image.

I care about people who need adequate health care and can't get it because of their weight.

I care about the future of children who are being taught to hate their bodies at younger and younger ages.

I care about the fact that there is so much misinformation it's not easy to be your own advocate.

I care about putting my flavor of love into the universe and doing things like this.

I care about the above because it matters to me how other people feel.

Now Anon if you really take issue with all that, this is where we should part ways.

I have no interest in faux concern, I have no interest in just LOL'ing and running.

To wrap it up.

I will give you this definition of concern trolling from Urban Dictionary:

concern troll

A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.

A concern troll commented, "You should be careful about what you write because you might get in trouble with the government." Another concern troll wrote, "This debate makes our side look disorganized."

Now, Anon or anyone else for that matter.

If you do catch me encouraging that behavior in any way whether it's towards people who diet, people like Meme Roth or anyone else feel free to LOL and call me a hypocrite.

Now if y'all will excuse me.

I'm going to do a little stretching and tea drinking.

Tomorrow, some sex advice for one of our homos and I'll finally explain my tag line.

Homo Out.


Let me give a shoutout to Daniel and our new homies from BBWNW. Make them welcome.

And remember please, for the love of fluffy bunnies my homies do not let me eat any more fucking dairy this week. If you are in Seatown and see yours truly about to nom on anything cheese related you have my full permission to smack that out of my hand.

Ow. My. Guts.

Okay now really homo out and I love you guys. You too Anon. Good try.


eli reed said...

I like your takedown of the troll, and your explanation of the whole thing.

Frankly I had the same thought when I read this yesterday, and your response addresses it perfectly.

Also, the fact that the other person is talking about dieting, in my opinion, makes it cool to talk about not-dieting.

Usually, Fattie is standing around minding her own, being fat at some fool, and that person out of nowhere says some effed up shit.

Also, one reason I might speak to someone about being anti-dieting and HAES, etc. is reciprocity. I listen to SO MUCH diet talk and self-hate talk all the freaking time.

I don't contribute to it, and if it's too over the top, I might even ask for it to stop.

But I might also pipe up with my HAES and anti-dieting stance, because it's my turn to talk.

wriggles said...

So when other people talk to you about the dangers of being fat, it's unwanted concern trolling.

But when you talk to others about the dangers of dieting....

If considering diets and their effects, honestly and without bias, is talking about the dangers of dieting. That about sums up exactly why people should talk about them honestly and openly and let folks make up their own mind.

I find c. trolls don't get that because they wish give orders and so ASSume everyone else is like them.

They aren't, it's false equivalency as usual.

Piffle said...

I agree, it's all in the attitude. If you are really concerned about people, you'll listen to them, not just spout the latest databit. Even if you disagree with them, you don't, you might learn something.

It's taken me a lot of years to learn that people are very different, and that some people just don't react like other people. For instance, in college I knew a kid who told me that caffiene calmed him down and let him go to sleep at night. I thought he was nuts. EVERYONE KNOWS that caffiene at night keeps people up. Well, twenty years later I learn that, indeed, for people with ADHD caffiene can be calming. My best guess is that most people are different from other people in some way.

I really hope most people are faster learners than I am.

Pretty sure I'm not quite saying what I want to say, tired here.

Dark Daughta said...

I believe in the existence of fat phobia - massive hatred of people who for whatever reason, do not manage to or are not interested in upholding this society's love of emaciated bodies. I believe that there are a variety of ways that people whose bodies are fleshy are made to feel awful about their bodies. I think it's necessary to challenge fat phobia and to challenge people who either purposefully or unwittingly utilize fat phobic comments to make fat people feel unsafe in their own bodies. I think that perpetuating the myth that fat people are somehow inherently more unhealthy and prone to health related medical complications and death is bullshite. heh :) I am a fatty girl who does not believe in dieting and who refuses to be cowed into complacence, bowed down to kiss the toes of those who bear less flesh, as if that somehow means they are more worthy of respect, peace of mind, love, attention, sexual desire, beautiful clothes. This is me saying I don't even think it's necessary to explain yourself or your beliefs to fat phobic anonymous trolls but good for you being able to point by point make your meaning clear. Beauty. :) Be well, nudemuse.

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